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Pojo's Magic The Gathering
Judge's Corner

Dragons & The Plague

Q: What would happen if I play 2 Worldgorger Dragons at the same time?

A: First of all, there are two questions you could be really asking here. The first is, "What happens if 2 Worldgorger Dragons come into play on my side of the board at the same time?"

I am going to try to answer that one first. To keep this simple, let's assume there are no other triggered effects that happen at the same time as the Dragons coming into play, and no other triggered effects occur as a result of other permanents coming into or leaving play. We will also assume that players have no responses until the stack is empty.

I will label the Dragons WG1 and WG2. CIP will stand for the comes into play ability of the appropriate Dragon (remove all other permanents from play), and LP will stand for the leaves play ability of the appropriate Dragon (return all permanents removed in this way to play).

So we have 2 triggers waiting to go on the stack when the 2 Dragons come into play - WG1-CIP and WG2-CIP. We can put them on the stack in either order, but it really doesn't matter here, as you could just switch the labels of the two Dragons and have the opposite effect happen. So let us put WG1-CIP on the stack first, followed by WG2-CIP. The stack now looks like this:


WG2-CIP resolves first, and it removes WG1 and all other permanents (AOP) from the game. This triggers WG1-LP, and the stack is as follows:


WG1-LP then resolves, but since no permanents were removed by WG1 (yet), we have nothing to return to play. So the stack looks like this:


With WG1 and AOP removed from the game, and WG2 in play. We now resolve WG1-CIP, and WG2 is removed from the game. This triggers WG2-LP, which resolves next, returning WG1 and AOP to play. This sets up a new WG1(b)-CIP ability. That resolves next, removing AOP from play.

So, the end result is: 1 Dragon in play (WG1), WG2 removed from game with no way to return, and AOP removed from game able to return when WG1 leaves play.


The other possible question is, "What happens if I am able to cast 2 Worldgorger Dragons in response to each other? (For example, with Winding Canyons)"

WG1 comes into play, and triggers WG1-CIP. That resolves, and removes AOP from the game. Then WG2 comes into play, creating WG2-CIP. That resolves, and removes WG1 from the game. WG1-LP triggers and resolves next, returning AOP to play.

End result: WG2 and AOP in play, WG1 removed from the game, returning when WG2 leaves play.


Q: If I play Kirtar's Desire on my opponent's creature, who has to reach threshold in order for it to be unusable?

A: Since it is your Kirtar's Desire, you need to have threshold for the creature to be not able to block.


Q: How does Seton's Desire actually work? (I'm talking about its Threshold.)


A: Here is Seton's Desire's Threshold ability: "Threshold -- All creatures able to block enchanted creature do so." This means that if you control a creature with Seton's Desire on it, and you have threshold, then if that creature attacks, any creature that can block the creature with Seton's Desire must block it. (Possible reasons that a creature might not be able to block include, but are not limited to, the following:

-The creature with Seton's Desire on it flies, and your opponent controls a creature that can't block fliers. In this case, any creatures that can block fliers must block that creature, but the other creatures can block as your opponent sees fit, as they can't block that creature.

-A creature your opponent controls is tapped. (Tapped creatures can't block.)

-There is an effect limiting the number of possible blockers a creature can have (for example, Familiar Ground). In that case, your opponent blocks that creature with the maximal number of blockers, and then can block elsewhere.

There may be other ways, but I can't think of any more right now.)


Q: Regarding Traveling Plague and Protection from Black, I just read (in D'Angelo's rules file):

A.26.3 - Not being enchantable by such enchantments means that the appropriate local enchantment
(Enchant Creature) cards are put into the graveyard if they are ever on the creature. So giving a
card protection will put any existing local enchantments of that color into the graveyard. This is
a state-based effect. [CompRules 2001/07/23 - 502.7b]

E.8.4 - You cannot try to move an enchantment onto a permanent it cannot legally enchant.
Creatures which cannot be enchanted, such as Bartel Runeaxe, or ones with Protection from Color
(see Rule A.26) are illegal things to enchant. [CompRules 2001/07/23 - 214.8d]

Ergo, Traveling Plague could be used in a deck with creatures having Protection from Black and those
creatures would not succumb to the effects of Traveling Plague, yes? However, creatures with
"Cannot be the target of spells or abilities" could be affected once Traveling Plague returns from
the graveyard?

A: Traveling Plague
Enchant Creature
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, put a plague counter on Traveling Plague.
Enchanted creature gets -1/-1 for each plague counter on Traveling Plague.
When enchanted creature leaves play, that creature's controller returns Traveling Plague from its owner's graveyard to play.

I think you have it correct. Once the creature enchanted with Traveling Plague is put into the graveyard (sending Traveling Plague to the graveyard as a state-based effect), that creature's controller returns Traveling Plague to play enchanting a creature currently in play. He can choose creatures that can't be the target of spells or abilities, as local enchantments only target when they are cast. However, he could not choose a creature with Protection from Black, as Traveling Plague could not enchant that creature.


Q: Also, if Traveling Plague runs out of legal targets, does it finally come to rest in its owner's graveyard or is the game a draw?


A: It would remain in the graveyard, since it has no creatures it can enchant.


Q: I have a Shambling Swarm in play. My opponent has a Basking Rootwalla and a Commander Eesha in play. I cast an Innocent Blood and I lose my Shambling Swarm and my opponent chooses to sacrifice his Basking Rootwalla. Can I place the -1/-1 counters on Commander Eesha? Does the Protection from Creatures prevent this, or, because the Shambling Swarm is in the graveyard, it doesn't?


A: The triggered ability is coming from a creature, so you can't target the Commander Eesha with it.


Q: I was recently playing a game against the "hunter" deck and my opponent had Hunting Grounds in play with a Mystic Snake in hand. I cast Obliterate and he responds by dropping a "free" Mystic Snake. He says the spell is countered because he didn't play Mystic Snake he used Hunting Grounds. I say since Obliterate can't be countered that it resolves. So who is right???


A: "Can't be countered" means exactly that - can't be countered. It doesn't care what or how it's being countered, it can't be countered. Thus, the Mystic Snake will not counter the Obliterate.


Q: I saw a question you answered about Remove Enchantments, and when I saw what the card did, the first sentence caught my eye:

"Return all enchantments you own and control to your hand."

Shouldn't it be "to their owner's hand"? Doesn't this mean that I could Confiscate an opponent's Squirrel Nest, and then use Remove Enchantments to return HIS Squirrel Nest to MY hand (since I control it)? I'm pretty sure cards don't allow other people's cards to go into your library, hand or graveyard.

You guys should get that fixed.


A: Um, let me put that sentence down here again, with a bit of emphasis…

"Return all enchantments you own and control to your hand."

Carry on…


Q: A friend and I were playing Magic and were wondering … can you cast Last Stand while using the Dual Lands, since Last Stand doesn't say basic land and the duals count as swamp, island and so on?


A: Last Stand will count the appropriate number of each land for each effect when it resolves. So, for each swamp you control, your opponent would lose 2 life. This count would include Badlands and the like, as Badlands is a swamp.


Q: Are tokens permanents?


A: Yes.

216.2. A token is subject to anything that affects permanents in general or that affects the token's type or subtype. A token isn't considered a card (even if represented by cards from other games or Unglued cards) and isn't subject to any effect that specifically uses the word "card."


Q: If my opponent attacks with a Longbow Archer, and I block with Phantom Nomad, will the Archer take damage before or after the counter is removed?


A: Since Longbow Archer has first strike, the counter will be removed from the Phantom Nomad before the Phantom Nomad deals its damage.


Tournament Report - FNM - Orange, CA - 2nd place

More Tog:

4 Chainer's Edict
3 Circular Logic
4 Counterspell
3 Cunning Wish
2 Deep Analysis
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Force Spike
4 Nightscape Familiar
4 Psychatog
3 Repulse
2 Upheaval

2 Darkwater Catacombs
1 Cephalid Coliseum
10 Island
4 Salt Marsh
3 Swamp
4 Underground River

1 Coffin Purge
1 Divert
1 Fact or Fiction
3 Gainsay
4 Ghastly Demise
2 Hibernation
1 Mana Short
1 Opportunity
1 Recoil

Anyway, no pre-tournament highlights, so straight to the first round...

Round 1 - Seth - B/U/r Reanimator

Game 1 - He rolls 7, I roll 2, he chooses to play and take a mulligan. I let him Entomb and Buried Alive, as I Fact or Fiction a couple of times. I counter all of his reanimation attempts, and eventually heave and serve for the win.

Sideboard: Nothing.

Game 2 - He plays, and we take no mulligans. I only take 3 from an Analysis this game, and I attack him for a few turns before I heave for the match.

Games: 2-0, Matches: 1-0

Round 2 - Jeff - R/G, more burn than creatures

I roll 11, he rolls 8, and I play. He takes a mulligan. I drop an early Familiar, but he erupts it straight off the board. I also take damage from a Shock, my Coliseum, and 1 mana burn. I think I countered his only creature he tried to play, a turn 2 Wild Mongrel, with a Force Spike. Another Upheaval win.

Sideboard: I think nothing, as I didn't see many creatures to justify bringing the Demises in.

Game 2 - He plays. He Volcanic Hammers me, and a creature hits the board on his side this time, as I take attack damage this game. I again take a mana burn, from overpaying for a flashbacked Deep Analysis with a Familiar out. Upheaval gets the job done though.

Games: 4-0, Matches: 2-0

Round 3 - Josh - U/W/g Hunting Grounds

I don't like the matchup, and neither does he, so we take an Intentional Draw.

Games: 4-0-3, Matches: 2-0-1

People seem to be a little perturbed at this, as it throws a lot of peoples' math off on how they can win the tournament. There are 2 3-0's and 3 or 4 3-0-1 after this round. I believe it was 3, because I think I played down this next round.

Round 4 - Ryan - R/G

Game 1 - He does get a lot more pressure on me than Jeff did, however, as I take some attack damage, and once he hits me with a Phantom Centaur with Fires of Yavimaya on the board to take me to 2, I have to Upheaval and hope he doesn't drop a Mountain and hit me with a madnessed Fiery Temper, since he has well over 7 cards in hand. When he drops a Forest, I exhale and take the win. Turns out he did have the Mountain and Temper though, as when I pointed out how he could win, he says he forgot he could do that. Another gift game for me.

Sideboard: In: 4 Ghastly Demise. Out: don't remember.

Game 2 - He chooses to play first. I seem to have kept most of the creatures off of the board, as I only took one attack damage this game. I lost my first Upheaval in a Fact or Fiction split, and I used a lot of card drawing spells to find the other. Finally, though, when I get down to 8 cards left in my library, I drop some creatures and overwhelm him. Turns out the Upheaval was the last card in the library.

Games: 6-0-3, Matches: 3-0-1

Round 5 - Michael Chang - Don't remember what he played, as I didn't write it down ... it was either Deep Dog or another R/G.

I offer him a prize split, he accepts, and then he concedes to me, as he was 4-1 with no shot at the top. We play one game for fun, and he gets me down to 6 before I heave for the win.

Games: 8-0-3, Matches: 4-0-1

Josh loses, so there is a clear winner at 15 points. I am the only person at 13 points, so I take second. I get 8 packs, and hand 4 of those to Michael. The 3 foil winners are told that we have to wait until next week for our foils, as the store was shipped the wrong foils. So they write down our names, and tell us we'll have them next week.

Join me next time for more questions and another report, as I also played in another type 2 tournament the next day. See you Thursday.

-Bill Guerin
DCI Level 2 judge




Copyright 2001 Pojo.com


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