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Chanting Madness
10.26.04
Title: Chanting Madness
Questions: 11
---
Q: I’m not going to
remember the names of these cards ... but ... here
goes anyway, as I think you’ll know easily. My
daughter was playing in a tourney on Friday. There
were no judges. She was playing R/G beats in
extended, facing a control deck.
Opponent got out a lock
combo with some scepter that copied any instant. He
copied an instant that doesn’t allow the opponent to
play spells during the turn he taps the scepter. (I
think that’s how it worked). You’ve probably seen
this combo I’m assuming.
My daughter couldn’t
play anything on her turn, and was forced to discard
once she held 8 cards. She wants to play the
Basking Rootwalla for its madness cost.
Can she do this with the
lock combo in play? If so, can it be counterspelled?
A: I believe her opponent had the following on Isochron Scepter:
Orim’s Chant
W Instant Kicker W (You may pay an additional W as you play this spell.) Target player can’t play spells this turn. If the kicker cost was paid, creatures can’t attack this turn.
She wouldn't be able to
play the Rootwalla, as you do play the card as part
of the madness ability. She would be able to remove
it from the game as the first part of madness, but
she wouldn't be able to play it.
502.24a Madness is a
keyword that represents two abilities. The first is
a static ability that functions while the card with
madness is in a player’s hand. The second is a
triggered ability that functions when the first
ability is applied. "Madness [cost]" means "If a
player would discard this card, that player discards
it, but may remove it from the game instead of
putting it into his or her graveyard" and "When this
card is removed from the game this way, until that
player passes next, the player may play it any time
he or she could play an instant as though it were in
his or her hand by paying [cost] rather than paying
its mana cost. When the player passes next, he or
she puts this card into his or her graveyard."
---
Q: Is that madness thing
supposed to make sense? It’s like a bunch of
gibberish.
“Madness 0 (You may play
this card for its madness cost at the time you
discard it from your hand.)”
Where does “remove it
from the game” come into play at all? I’m confused.
What’s being removed from the game?
-Bill
A: The way they chose to
make the mechanic work, it has to be that
"lawyerly."
The removal from game is
the first step in playing it via madness. Normally,
when cards are discarded, they go to your graveyard
(from your hand). If you choose to play a card with
madness via madness when it is discarded from your
hand, instead of moving it to your graveyard, you
move it to your removed from game zone instead. Then
you play it from there.
Picky judges and Magic
Online are the only people that ever reference the
removed from game zone in the process, though. Most
people just show the card, put it on the table, and
pay the madness cost.
---
Q: My opponent begins
his turn by sacrificing Lifespark Spellbomb to turn
one of his lands into a 3/3 creature (while still
being a land). He also has an Omega Myr already in
play, two cards in his hand, and three untapped
lands.
At this point, I play
Recoil on the 3/3 Land intending to send it back to
his hand and have him discard a card.
He then says he is
tapping the 3/3 Land for one mana to play a spell
(irrelevant 1/1 card, no effects), taps his other
three mana to play an Urborg Drake (1BU, 2/3 flier)
and then says the card he is discarding from the
requirement of Recoil is the 3/3 Land that was
returned to his hand.
He explained to me that
if they went on the stack, the two creatures would
come out due to tapping of the 4 lands, the Recoil
would resolve, the 3/3 Land go back to his hand and
be available for the discard requirement of the
Recoil.
I'm having a hard time
believing that the 3/3 Land can be the same card
that is bounced, tapped to play a spell, AND be the
card that is discarded while both the cards
previously in his hand come into play. Hopefully
this isn't too muddied for you and you can help out.
-Craig
A: While the method used
to obtain the final position is illegal (you can't
play a creature spell when something's on the
stack), the end result is legally obtainable
(assuming you Recoiled the land in one of his main
phases). Here's how (Y= you, O=opponent):
Y: Recoil the 3/3 Land
O: Tap the 3/3 land for mana. Y, O: Let the Recoil resolve. O: Land returns to his hand. He then chooses to discard that land. O: Use the mana floating to cast the 1/1. Y, O: Let the 1/1 resolve. O: Tap the other 3 mana to cast the Urborg Drake. Y, O: Let it resolve.
---
Q: At last night's FNM
we had a small problem with life totals.
Player one was playing a Ravager deck. He had an Atog in play and sacrificed all of his artifacts after it went through unblocked dealing 9 damage. Player 2 shrugged and said ok I'm at 1. Player 1 looked at his score board (both players used written paper) and noticed that his paper said his opponent was at 9 while player 2 showed his paper and it said he was at ten. Due to the tedious amounts of Ravager sacing and Disciple point swings, neither player could prove that they were right (or that the other player was wrong - whatever way you wish to look at it). I don't know the official ruling here - which is what I want. I would assume at a higher level event the play would stand but the opponent would be at one with a warning to both. What we did was just reset the current turn since both players could have been at fault. Since it was FNM we didn't give any warnings as we might have had to give them both one. But again we are not too sure on this.
-Yellow
A: I think I have to
start inserting a disclaimer to these type
questions. When I answer a question like this, it is
what I would do at a tournament if I were the judge,
if this is the exact information that is available.
You may get a different ruling from a different
judge. Having said that ...
I personally think the
level of the tournament does not matter when
deciding what to do here. Whether it is FNM or
Worlds, I would apply the same ruling, and that is
that the board position stays and the player is at
one. Both players would also receive a warning
(Procedural Error - Major) at all levels.
I am not too keen on
"winding back" the game to the start of the current
turn. This gives both players information that they
might not otherwise have had (player 2 now knows
that the attack can't be lethal, and player 1 knows
that player 2 probably doesn't have anything to
remove the Atog).
Since each player is
responsible for his or her own life total, I would
consider that player's paper keeping score of the
game to be the "official" score, barring evidence to
the contrary.
---
Q: One of my friends is
running a U/W deck that relies a lot on enchantments
and Story Circle to stay alive while my other friend
bashes his goblin-lovin head against the wall
(Worship + a pro red creature in play can do awful
things to a red deck :) ). Anyways... the point is,
the goblin-lover friend got a couple of ways to get
some damage through before the other can get his
Worship, so the U/W friend is running Story Circle.
Question 1: Does Hand to
Hand (Tempest) stops the activation of the Story
Circle?
A: During the combat
phase, yes. However, if the controller of the Story
Circle is smart, he'll just play the ability of the
Story Circle in the main phase (before the goblin
player attacks).
---
Question 2: Is Blinkmoth
Nexus affected by summoning sickness?
A: All permanents have
summoning sickness. Only creatures are affected by
it.
So if it's not a
creature, then no, it won't be affected by summoning
sickness.
Also, if the Nexus has
been out a turn, it no longer has summoning
sickness. Therefore, if you turn it into a creature,
it will be able to attack.
---
Question 3: If you don’t
have any cards in your hand, and you control a
Masticore, you have to sacrifice it, right? since
upkeep comes before drawing. Then can you regenerate
it by paying (2)?
A: You have to sacrifice
it, but regeneration won't help to keep it in play.
Sacrifice is not the same thing as destroy.
Regeneration only stops permanents from being
destroyed. It will do nothing to permanents that are
sacrificed.
---
Question 4: Can the
cards discarded via Breakthrough (or similar
spells) be played for their madness cost?
A: Yes. They are being
discarded from your hand.
---
Question 5: When a bunch
of Goblins attack along with a Goblin Piledriver,
will removing/killing/bouncing the goblins affect
the power of the Piledriver? Is it possible to
affect it in any time after attackers have been
declared?
-Adrian L.
A: The power bonus for
the Piledriver is locked in once its triggered
ability resolves. A time line might help in
answering your question here:
-"Bunch O' Goblins"
attack, including the Piledriver.
-Piledriver's triggered ability goes on the stack. -You now have a chance to kill goblins (or remove them from combat). Any goblins you kill (or remove from combat) right now won't give a bonus to the Piledriver. -Once both players pass and the Piledriver's triggered ability is on top of the stack, he gets a power bonus equal to twice the number of other goblins attacking. -If you kill goblins (or remove them from combat) now, the Piledriver's power won't change.
---
Q: What would happen if
Disintegrate were played on an indestructible
creature with enough mana spent on X to kill the
creature if it weren't indestructible?
-Marty R.
A: The indestructible
creature will giggle, and the game will move on
(with the creature still in play). Indestructible
creatures find it quite funny when they get a lot of
damage pointed at them.
(Since it's not going to
the graveyard, the replacement effect removing it
from the game won't happen.)
Disintegrate
XR Sorcery Disintegrate deals X damage to target creature or player. That creature can’t be regenerated this turn. If the creature would be put into a graveyard this turn, remove it from the game instead.
---
Q: If I target my
opponent with Gaea's Blessing, and my opponent
doesn't have any cards in his grave, does he shuffle
his library?
-Kotaro K.
A: Yes.
See you Friday.
Bill Guerin
DCI Level 2 Judge |
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